Talk:Macbeth (play)
Title
Should this article be at this title? After all, Macbeth really existed, and it's not obvious that the play rather than the king is the primary usage. Peter Jackson (talk) 09:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- I see from the History that John Stephenson started this article and wrote most of it. Presumably he should be asked whether it might be changed to a disambiguation page and the content transferred to Macbeth (play). --Martin Wyatt (talk) 21:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, it should be there. I suggest that Macbeth redirect here, though (I'm not sure how many people know there was a real king). John Stephenson (talk) 21:03, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
- Many years ago in Tahiti I had drinks with a pleasant young man who was the umpteenth Thane of Cawdor.... Hayford Peirce (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
- That would have been Earl Cawdor, either the present Earl, who succeeded in 1993, or his predecessor. Debrett's Peerage calls him Thane, but Burke's Peerage calls the title a press fancy, and GEC's Complete Peerage doesn't seem to say anything either way. Peter Jackson (talk) 11:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Ah. Well, HE didn't call himself that. We were having drinks at a friend's house and the hostess said something about it. I asked if he was really descended from the guy in the play and he said yes....Hayford Peirce (talk) 14:59, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Well, he isn't/wasn't. Macbeth had no children. And Calder/Cawdor Castle dates from the 14th century. And I think Holinshed, Shakespeare's source, uses the title in connexion with the killing of a different king. Peter Jackson (talk) 18:10, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Stupid me! Even by, oh, 1976 or so, 19 years after reading Macbeth, I had already forgotten that HE was the Thane of Cawdor, I thought that Cawdor wuz some OTHER nobleman down the road a piece, hehe. So, whoever I met, would have been the descendant of Earl Cawdor, as you said above. Interesting (to me), by the way, is the fact that Cawdor is an alternate spelling of Calder, as in the Mr. Calder and Mr. Behrens stories that I have been writing about extensively. I'm sure that Michael Gilbert, a MOST learned person, was aware of this. Mr. Calder, in his stories, is an urbane, friendly, but exceedingly hardboiled "middle-aged cutthroat". Hayford Peirce (talk) 18:26, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Originally it was some other nobleman, but he rebelled and was defeated and his title forfeit. Macbeth was awarded the title as a reward for his major role in the battle. This happened before and at the beginning of the play, in which the original thane doesn't appear. Peter Jackson (talk) 09:55, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
- Stupid me! Even by, oh, 1976 or so, 19 years after reading Macbeth, I had already forgotten that HE was the Thane of Cawdor, I thought that Cawdor wuz some OTHER nobleman down the road a piece, hehe. So, whoever I met, would have been the descendant of Earl Cawdor, as you said above. Interesting (to me), by the way, is the fact that Cawdor is an alternate spelling of Calder, as in the Mr. Calder and Mr. Behrens stories that I have been writing about extensively. I'm sure that Michael Gilbert, a MOST learned person, was aware of this. Mr. Calder, in his stories, is an urbane, friendly, but exceedingly hardboiled "middle-aged cutthroat". Hayford Peirce (talk) 18:26, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Well, he isn't/wasn't. Macbeth had no children. And Calder/Cawdor Castle dates from the 14th century. And I think Holinshed, Shakespeare's source, uses the title in connexion with the killing of a different king. Peter Jackson (talk) 18:10, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Ah. Well, HE didn't call himself that. We were having drinks at a friend's house and the hostess said something about it. I asked if he was really descended from the guy in the play and he said yes....Hayford Peirce (talk) 14:59, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- That would have been Earl Cawdor, either the present Earl, who succeeded in 1993, or his predecessor. Debrett's Peerage calls him Thane, but Burke's Peerage calls the title a press fancy, and GEC's Complete Peerage doesn't seem to say anything either way. Peter Jackson (talk) 11:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Many years ago in Tahiti I had drinks with a pleasant young man who was the umpteenth Thane of Cawdor.... Hayford Peirce (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, it should be there. I suggest that Macbeth redirect here, though (I'm not sure how many people know there was a real king). John Stephenson (talk) 21:03, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
If you do it that way there'll have to be a hatnote "For other uses see ..." or whatever. Peter Jackson (talk) 17:04, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
History
"there is no explanation of the statement by Lady Macbeth, who is apparently childless, that she has given suck". As a matter of historical fact, she had a son by a previous husband (who briefly succeeded Macbeth). I don't know whether Shakespeare would have known that. Peter Jackson (talk) 10:21, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia he felt free to make major changes in the story anyway. Peter Jackson (talk) 10:39, 19 November 2016 (UTC)