Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach

Matthias Röder's suggestions

Some general observations

The factual data in this article is generally ok. We need to add some more (and better!) references. It is my impression that the article needs to be cleaned up in terms of style. Some sections read more like prose that you would use for a biography rather than an article in an encyclopedia. The reason for this lies, in my opinion, in the amount of detail that is provided. One example: "During much of the year, Leipzig’s Collegium Musicum gave twice-weekly, two-hour performances in Zimmerman’s Coffeehouse on Catherine Street, just off the main market square. For this purpose, the proprietor provided a large hall and acquired several musical instruments." While it might important to know that the Collegim performed twice a week in Zimmermanns Kaffeehaus, it might be a bit too much to talk about the exact location of the concerts and how they were managed.

I would like to suggest to remove the over-detailed passages. I thought it would be a good idea to discuss this issue amongst other editors before making the changes. What do you think? Matthias Röder 12:10, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Bach has a synonym for "musician"

What is exactly Hull's argument for this claim? I am not entirely sure that this is accepted knowledge amongst Bach scholars, but I am happy to revise my opinion. Could anyone please shed light on this? Thanks! Matthias Röder 09:48, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

I have read this claim many times, but I don't know the evidence for it. My vague recollection is that it applied only to the local community where the Bach family had dominated as musicians for centuries. Thus, it reflected local/regional linguistic practice, such as might have occurred with other trades where one family had dominated for centuries... I suppose the place to look would be regional German social history sources.--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 11:01, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

We shall investigate this further. :-) Tanks for your comment, Martin! Matthias Röder 11:11, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Bach copying scores by Johann Christoph Bach

The article states: "Bach's obituary indicates that he copied music out of Johann Christoph's scores, but his brother had apparently forbidden him to do so, possibly because scores were valuable and private commodities at the time."

It is more likely that Johann Christoph did not allow JS to copy from his scores because the pieces in them were important tools for carrying out his profession. Having access to particular pieces was a big advantage for a composer and organist in those days. And Johann Christoph may not have wanted JS to compromise this advantage.

Maybe we could look into this some more. I am sure Christoph Wolff has a statement about JS's copying activity in Ohrdruf in his biography of Bach. I don't have my copy with me at the moment. Could someone please check this? Thanks! Matthias Röder 09:57, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

References 3, 4, and 5

These references are unacceptable. There are much better sources for these statements in the original sources or serious Bach research. I am putting this remark here as a reminder for everyone who's working on this article, including myself. Once I have access to a decent musicological library again I will add these references. Cheers, Matthias Röder 10:08, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Maththias: please change and correct anything which you find appropriate. YOu could mention the changes in these pages, for clarity. THe article seems to have been imported from Wikipedia, so there is no problem in massive rewriting, if you think it desirable. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 11:04, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Art of the fugue

This is just a note to myself (and all other editors) that someone should add some references (and text) to the section discussing the question of the Art of the Fugue being unfinished. Matthias Röder 13:09, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Bibliography (suggestion)

I sugegst that part of the section Modern Scholarship should be removed to Bibliography. The concept of sub-dividing scholarship into sections (modern....etc) is itself good but simply the format of the article is slightly too long... Raphael D. Thöne 2nd of July 2008