User talk:Thomas Mandel

Tasks: start a new article • add basic, wanted or requested articles • add definitions • add metadata • edit new pages

Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start, and see Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, our help system and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any user or the editors for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun!

-- Sarah Tuttle 18:16, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Complementary

Moved this from DNA talk pageNancy Sculerati 03:52, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

You ask what I wish to see in the article. Well, is this true of DNA?

Jonas Salk The Anatomy of Reality

"It appears that all units of reality are comprised of two basic elements in an asymmetrical binary relationship in dynamic interaction..." (p.38) "As noted above, one of the basic ideas that underlies my thinking, one of the images I have in mind when I contemplate the universe, is that it is constructed upon a simple pattern of order that may be seen in any and all phenomena, no matter how complex. The simple pattern is that of a binary relationship, recognized in a binary system. The implication here is that everything in nature, everything in the universe, is composed of networks of two elements, or two parts in functional relationship to each other..."(p.39) "The most fundamental phenomenon in the universe is relationship."(p.44)

Consider that the entire store of DNA knowledge is derived from a pair of base pairs held together by a pair of pairs which is then read as a pair, transcribed as a pair and finally constructed as an amino acid as a pair i.e., as a pair one by one via an enzyme which is a pair.

Thomas Mandel 23:39, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

Thomas, we are looking -as a group- to make this a great on-line encyclopedia. We have fun, but it is serious fun. When I pointed out that the article DNA has been nominated for approval, and suggested that this was not the appropriate time for a novice to try his hand at editing something he didn't know much about, but that putting down questions and explaining what you might like to know that is not there , I meant in a scholarly fashion, such that your aim would be to try to help make that article of higher quality, not that this would be the appropriate place to muse or ask us to muse. Your question is a philosophical one that I have moved here, we are in a more directed mode in that article.We need to get it into shape and there really is no time for such tangential considerations.

Sorry, I will leave your article alone.

Speaking of time, I again had to revert one of your edits, because the protein coat of pneumococcus is a major factor in enabling the bacteria to infect organisms, and you wrote that it has no role in the infection.This is not helpful, please do ot make edits in an article nominated for approval in s areas you are not familiar with, we do not want to miss such a major mistake.

I enjoy learning how breakthroughs are made in science. I read that when biologists didn't know what the role of DNA was, that many thought protein was the carrier of information, that DNA was too simple, the experiment showed that only the DNA entered the cell and this observation showed them that in fact DNA was the carrier of information. Could be that I have the experiments mixed up.

• In regards to Binary theory 'a la Salk, or pairs holding pairs- I answer 'a la Lennon: One and One and One Makes Three. :-)

Laszlo, in his paper The Systems Sciences in Sevice of Humanity sates that 1+1=3, if one counts ALL the elements.

I got your e-mail about approval for Systems theory. As Approvals Editor do not approve articles.

I didn't mean to ask for approval, just wanted to know what it entailed.

An editor in a workgroup that your article falls into would have to nominate it for approval. At this time, it is a very broad article, I myself am not familiar with "Systems Theory". I see that it includes Systems biology and many other things, like education. Is this a recognized discipline?

May I suggest that you refer to my work at http://isss.org/projects/doku.php?id=wiki:primer and to answer your question

Could you give us a reference that recognizes "System theory" as a science that includes all the fields as you have presented it?

please see the article http://isss.org/projects/doku.php/wiki:general_orientations_of_systems_science

Although your article has many references, they are not tied in with the text. Even if you can't do numbered footnote references (I can't, I admit) put them in parentheses and they can be formatted later.

Thank you for the tip

Put the workgroups that you think the article falls under in categories. Look at another article that has workgroups on its edit page to see how to write the code.This will help find the editors that can approve it and once you do, I will help you contact them.

I will do that when I think I am finished. Right now I just started a few days ago.

If however, the connection between all fields with the basic idea of systems is original, you may have a problem, and the article may have to be broken up into its respective recognized discilines.

No it is not original so that is not a problem. The problem is that many if not most scientists have not studied systems theory.

Systems theory is a field of inquiry concerning all disciplines which study how things work together (Original). Here is an insider view --http://isss.org/projects/doku.php/wiki:who_knows_what_general_systems_theory_is Thomas Mandel 13:11, 10 June 2007 (CDT) Nancy Sculerati 03:52, 10 June 2007 (CDT)