Talk:Thylakoid/Draft

Start article on Thylakoids

Begin as stub. Anthony.Sebastian 22:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Short and sweet

Your prose has a poetic quality Anthony. The first sentence though is too long, I think it would help to split it. But the article says enough and says it nicely. Am happy to nominate for approval when you're ready.Gareth Leng 17:50, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Gareth, thank you for the "short and sweet' and 'poetic' compliments. Regarding sentence length, I have always judged a sentence too long if I could not follow its message, the path it tried to pave for the reader.

If a sentence proceeds in a coherent way, cumulating information with successive free modifiers, each modifying an obvious predecessor, each a separate proposition building on or amplifying its predecessor, each proposition a layer of an onion, the onion as a whole the sentence, the successive layers together the sentence, as many layers as necessary to serve the writer's intended purpose, that of combining information by coordinating it, by subordinating it, or by subsuming it in modification—then the length of the sentence specifies only a minor characteristic of it. The way the sentence directs the readers attention, the way it unfolds information, renders the sentence at least as important as that of the information it contains.

Thus: "Inside plant cells and other Eukaryotic cells that carry out photosynthesis, tiny, bacteria-sized organelles, called chloroplasts, contain, within the inner membrane of their dual membrane structure, the early photosynthesizing apparatus, an extensive system of membrane-bound disk-shaped sacs called thylakoids, the interior spaces (lumens) of the sacs possibly all interconnected, the membranes of the sacs housing the pigment molecules that absorb the energy of photons of particular frequencies emitted by the sun, thereby initiating the physico-chemical sequence of steps in the photosynthesizing process."

Still not perfect, but 'too long'? ;) I will work on it more, though, as you felt it would help to break it up. Anthony.Sebastian 03:07, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I think so, because you have to keep track of what the refferant is - so "within the inner membrane of their dual membrane structure, the early photosynthesizing apparatus," - does apparatus here refer to the inner membrane, or something within the inner membrane, - i.e. you have to know what the sentence is saying before you can follow it. It's something that needs a second reading to decode.Gareth Leng 11:11, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Precisely the kind of feedback I'd hope to receive. Sincerely much obliged. My goal: perfect in your judgment. Anthony.Sebastian 20:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Cyanobacteria

I don't want to interrupt approval, but there is very interesting material in the first two paragraphs -- but the language about the thykaloids in organisms without chloroplasts could be more clear -- even a compare and contrast drawing.

Completely off the wall, but putting on my photographic science hat, the more sensitive photographic films couple organic dyes to the photosensitive silver salts. The dyes do the initial energy capture, which sends photons to the silver. Is there any parallel with cyanobacterial thylakoids -- essentiall energy amplification?

Fascinating article, though. Howard C. Berkowitz 09:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm still in the process of learning about the molecular mechanisms of photosynthesis. The photons captured excite electrons; they're not sent along, as their energy dissipates in the process, including as heat. I'll work on the prokaryote pgraph. Can you find someone to do the comparison diagram? Anthony.Sebastian 04:01, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Chris Day

I don't have time to explore many changes right now, I just added what I think is a large hole, the synthesis of ATP. I think there could be some more general descriptions about the function with regard to the interconnected role of the thylakoids with the Calvin cycle, i.e. ATP and NADPH created using thylkoids is essential. Currently the Calvin cycle is mentioned in passing, and not by name. Another possible area of comparison is with the mitochondria. Chris Day 18:40, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Chris, I will work with those suggestions, in conjunction with a new image added. My original thought was more to introduce the reader to thylakoids, without getting into the molecular mechanisms to any great extent, leaving those for the article on photosynthesis. But I agree with you, that approach leaves the article a little thin. Thanks. —Anthony.Sebastian 22:45, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Toward Approval

I notice that Gareth has used the single editor approval method for this article to endorse this version. The approval time has passed and I can lock that version, however, I also notice that Chris Day raised and issue and Anthony appears to have responded and added several edits that seem to change a lot of content. This article is certainly eligible for the three editor approval of the latest version (we'll need Anthony and Chris Day to sign the template) or the single editor approval that Gareth originally pointed to. I'll wait 24 hours before I return to give you all time to see which option you prefer. D. Matt Innis 01:39, 3 December 2010 (UTC)