Talk:French fries

Article Checklist for "French fries"

Workgroup category or categories	Food Science Workgroup [Please add or review categories]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	Yes
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Hayford Peirce 23:28, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

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	NOTICE, please do not remove from top of page.
	I wrote 75% of this article, as shown here, at Wikipedia. I intend to expand it.Hayford Peirce 23:28, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
	Check the history of edits to see who inserted this notice.

Could your pictures be anymore disgusting?

Seriously, come on! Those pictures look gross...which if your intention is to discourage people from eating french fries then you can proudly say mission accomplished. Personally, I think we should have at least one decent picture just to balance the other bad ones. Mike Mayors (Talk) 00:43, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

I don't think they're gross, but they're "unappealing". perhaps better light, or better arrangement of fries would be better. Maybe even a picture of some home cooked fries, taken in good light. I may be able to provide one soon.--Robert W King 12:19, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Well, this is certainly a perfect example of Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and can be profitably included therein when that fine article is eventually created! Maybe because these fries tasted so good after I took the pictures that they still look extremely attractive to my biased eyes. I don't really see what the objections are -- fries are cooked, you know: in these effete days in which few home cooks make their own fries, perhaps you're thinking along Disraeli's line about it being best not knowing how laws and sausages are prepared. In any case, if you can produce and upload more "appealing" and, I would hope, non-McDonald, pictures, please do so.... Hayford Peirce 14:35, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

You're right Hayford. I think we need a "neutral" image of french fries; one that conveys the stereotype of french fries. I think the cooking ones are a-okay, but the top one should be different.--Robert W King 14:35, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Here you go: French fries - nice, tasty, delicious, incredibly unhealthy french fries :) Mike Mayors (Talk) 14:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

I'll get a picture tonight. I'd rather not use that one, for various reasons.--Robert W King 14:57, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Flickr has some excellent photos of fries, see http://flickr.com/search/?q=french+fries&l=cc&ct=0 ---Stephen Ewen 17:36, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

If you're not gonna use mine, I guess this one is good enough, although its lighting is not A-100% either. I myself would add a little bearnaise sauce to it, also....

This picture is much better.--Robert W King 08:59, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

McDs should have a spot! I think it might be fun to have a "French fry gallery" - like was done with Tux. :-D ---Stephen Ewen 18:12, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Fries and chips are different

I would like to dispute the implication that fries and chips are the same thing. Fries are sold in the UK, usually in places like McDonald's. Also, fries are thinner than chips. In any chip shop (a place to buy fish and chips) you will find thicker chips which will have been fried; whereas chips may be fried or grilled. John Stephenson 04:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

So, change it. :-) --Stephen Ewen 04:56, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

I have written another article in competition to this one :-) - Chip (food). I have also set up a disambiguation page at Chip. This was redirecting to integrated circuit. John Stephenson 05:29, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Glad to learn that there is an actual distinction. In Wikipedia everyone treated the two as if they were exactly the same. On the other hand, how do you account for the very large larges sometimes served in the States called, I think, ranch fries, or something similar. They are much larger than the fries in the pictures in this article and are quite mealy inside -- I gotta say that I don't like them at all. As someone said about something else, "Fries can never be too rich or too thin...." Hayford Peirce 10:38, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Ahhhh! John started a fork!  :-)

By the way, those big thick fries are sometimes called "steak fries" in the U.S.

At any rate, I am glad to see there is such spirited debate here over this vitally important topic.  :-D

Stephen Ewen 13:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Look, they may be fat and they may be thin; they may be flat or crinkle-cut or curly -- but "french fries," "chips," "pommefritz," "fries," "ranch fries," and so on are the same basic category of food product. If we split hairs (or fries), what about US chains like Wendy's -- fat fries -- vs. BK or McD's -- thin -- are these two different things? I don't think so. Russell Potter 10:52, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

A proposal to integrate the two articles

Now that we've had our very amicable divorce, why not a reconciliation? Under the main article, French fries, couldn't we have a section called, say, Are Chips Really Different or some such? And then as many well-sourced words as are needed.... Hayford Peirce 11:03, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

No. This is like saying that Pastas and Pizza are the same because they both generally include bread, tomato sauce, meat, and cheese, when in fact pizza is something different. You can't just generalize foods. --Robert W King 11:07, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

I think they should stay separate. These are different ways of cutting up potatoes; the only way to reconcile them is to have a single article covering all potato-related matters. In the UK, we never say 'fries' unless we're buying them in an American-style place; furthermore, they look different. John Stephenson 11:08, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Not only is it a different way to cut the potato, it's also a different way of preparing it. Sometimes fries are baked, sometimes they're actually fried. What us Americans call chips can also be fried or baked, and then seasoned or not seasoned; or even cheezed(cheezed?). Additionally, there are folks who like to eat ketchup with their french fries and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who does the same with potato chips.--Robert W King 11:22, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

I feel strongly that the two should be merged (for the reasons I mentioned above, and also the fact that the subject, though close to the (cholesterol-laden) hearts of many {myself included) they are really only one small part of the worldwide spectrum of foods), isbut I think we could do so in a way that respects difference and variation. It seems to me that opinions may -- and do -- vary in this area as to whether or not the differences are significant, or how. I would say, how about a main entry on "Fried potato products" or even "Potatoes, cooked" -- here we could have sections for all manner of such things, including -- if needed! -- a section on "Fried potato nomenclature disputes"! Russell Potter 11:28, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm going to disagree with you Russel on the grounds that I think creating an article of "Fried potato products" would end up in something absolutely colossal. I don't think it's fair to to lump everything in one category. By your theory, we might as well make a page that says "Everything that is made with eggs in it", but we all know that Cake is different from Scrambled Eggs, Pie, Pretzels, smoothies, etc. --Robert W King 11:34, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Well, I certainly think that "Fried potato products" is NOT the way to go! Far too clunky, and, as said above, it would lead to an enormous article. So... I am willing to defer to those who feel there is a sufficient difference between fries and chips to merit separate article. I myself am going to write *separate* articles about Blanquette de veau (today) and Beef Burgundy (someday) and I am willing to stipulate that they are indeed different....Bon appetit! Hayford Peirce 11:51, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Another modest proposal

How about someone in England uploading a *photo* of what he/she considers to be quintessential Brit-type chips? And inserting it in *both* the Chips article and the French fries article, with a couple of words pointing out the significant differences? I've uploaded 3 fries pictures myself: as the wartime Brits said: "We expect every man to do his duty." Hayford Peirce 14:00, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

I concur with Hayford's suggestion. Let's have photographs! You know, photography? Wink wink nudge nudge.--Robert W King 13:59, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

But when photographs become bigger than the aggregate of text, it becomes a problem. Yi Zhe Wu 15:33, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Don't worry about it -- check out the Wiki article on fries: eventually this one will have a gazillion words to it -- people seem to be obsessed with the subject! In any case, I'd rather see an article with too many pictures than one with not enough. Hayford Peirce 15:33, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

People find these sorts of articles a light, fun break now and then. I know I do, anyway. You know, come home from a hard day at work, and you just want to kind of do something amusing for a little while before turning back on the serious button. Think of it also like having a monthly workplace party where you can let your hair down a bit with your coworkers--those sorts of get-togethers are actually important to have to maximize productivity when it really counts. They can help coworkers "bond". At any rate, this is part of why these sorts of topics will always be popular on a wiki, I think.

Now, to reiterate, we need a French fries/Gallery, filled with photos of all kinds of fries from around the world! :-D

Stephen Ewen 22:07, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Would the gallery be a separate article or incorporated in this one by one means or another? I think that when I first joined CZ I found an article about something or other that had a large "gallery" stuck in the middle of it -- with about one dozen *empty* image boxes. I've got nothing against galleries (en principe, I think) but I'd like to make sure that there are *real* pictures there!

See Biology (click on lead image), Onslow Beach (click on lead image), and Tux (scroll down and click on third image).---Stephen Ewen 00:29, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Chips photos

Following the proposal above, I have uploaded several images of chips, placing one at the bottom of the French fries article and two on the Chip (food) page. There is also a pic of a chip shop. I think that chips are different enough in shape, preparation and how they are served to warrant a separate article. John Stephenson 02:51, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Chips look like french fries. Oh, wait. French fries look like chips. ;-D

How about an article French fries and Chips?

Stephen Ewen 05:17, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Sounds fair enough! Then we could learn of the distinctions as well as the similarities. By the by, the fries shown in these images are all of the thin variety, but many US restaurants serve a variety which is a thick as, or thicker, than chips, so I don't think thickness per se is really a distinction. Russell Potter 08:01, 16 June 2007 (CDT)