Talk:Revolver (The Beatles album)
New name?
This would definitely be better at Revolver (album) (or maybe even Revolver (Beatles album), if other artists have an album of the same name). J. Noel Chiappa 11:59, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- I second; the common abstraction of "Revolver" is the six-shooter with bullets. This should probably be like the Led Zepplin case, where there's a discography. --Robert W King 12:07, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Discographies: Albums
We have not been making article pages for albums. At present, these should be listed on the "Discography" subpage of the The Beatles cluster. Examples of this can be found at Townes Van Zandt and Lucinda Williams, among others. David E. Volk 12:09, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- Good point - as long as some sort of search function can find it there. J. Noel Chiappa 12:41, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- I don't know if I agree with this. I myself am never gonna write an article about a specific album, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else wanted to write about, oh, let's say the first Joan Baez or Bob Dylan album, in which he/she would be doing much *more* than just listing the songs as in a discography. In other words, giving a historical perspective on the time it was introduced, how it was a breakthrough, what it revealed about the singer, its influence on others, blah blah blah. Just the way there's a difference between a bibliography for Donald Hamilton, which just lists his books, and an individual article about each book, as, for instance, The Interlopers. So I don't think we should take an early, dogmatic stand that an article about an album *can't* be a stand-alone.... Hayford Peirce 13:01, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- If something was such a significant part of a person's life, shouldn't it be a part of their normal page? There's no faststanding rule that says information about a particular defining element (e.g. book or album) can't go in the articlespace of the individual. --Robert W King 13:04, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- Well, sure, at least some of that info can go into the main page. But suppose the artist has a *really* breakthrough album, one that *merits* a thousand words all by itself? Shouldn't it have its own article *as well*? We're not restricted by page count here....Hayford Peirce 13:14, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- My argument is that if the record was practically the thing that made the artist known, then it should probably go in the bio space. I would be hard pressed to say that there are any albums that deserve their own article. We're not restricted by article length, either. Just look at DNA or Life. --Robert W King 13:25, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- Well, sure, at least some of that info can go into the main page. But suppose the artist has a *really* breakthrough album, one that *merits* a thousand words all by itself? Shouldn't it have its own article *as well*? We're not restricted by page count here....Hayford Peirce 13:14, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- If something was such a significant part of a person's life, shouldn't it be a part of their normal page? There's no faststanding rule that says information about a particular defining element (e.g. book or album) can't go in the articlespace of the individual. --Robert W King 13:04, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- I don't know if I agree with this. I myself am never gonna write an article about a specific album, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else wanted to write about, oh, let's say the first Joan Baez or Bob Dylan album, in which he/she would be doing much *more* than just listing the songs as in a discography. In other words, giving a historical perspective on the time it was introduced, how it was a breakthrough, what it revealed about the singer, its influence on others, blah blah blah. Just the way there's a difference between a bibliography for Donald Hamilton, which just lists his books, and an individual article about each book, as, for instance, The Interlopers. So I don't think we should take an early, dogmatic stand that an article about an album *can't* be a stand-alone.... Hayford Peirce 13:01, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- {Unindenting..} So you don't think that Beethoven's 9th deserves a page? Michelangelo's David? Etc, etc, etc? Sorry, I agree with Hayford on this. If the article would just be a stub of a couple of sentences, sure, put it in with the artist's article. But if it's a significant work of art in its own right, it deserves a page, just like the 9th and the David. J. Noel Chiappa 15:56, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- I'm not saying that; I agree that there are some works of art that obviously reserve the right to have their own articles. However, I'm pretty sure that the 'David' wasn't Michaelangelo's first piece that brought him into the known world of "pop" (relative) culture; same with Beethoven's 9th. If I put out a music album, and as a direct result it makes me popular/well known, I wouldn't expect that album to have it's own article page. --Robert W King 16:01, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- For Michelangelo, I believe that would have been his Pieta - which also of course deserves a page! Anyway, I wasn't trying to say anything about "making one known" (is that what Revolver is famous for, BTW - I'm assuming that's how the 'made famous' came into this discussion). All I said was "a significant work of art in its own right", and left that unspecified (although no doubt reasonable people might quibble over particular works), although I do think it's a reaonable abstract guideline. J. Noel Chiappa 16:10, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- Okay, back to lowbrow stuff. How about Kitty Wells, the old-time country singer. She had been around for a while, and was reasonably well-known. Then Hank Thompson had a big hit called "The Wild Side of Life" back in the early 1950s, in which he blamed "honky-honk angels" for bringing grief to poor innocent male folk, hehe. Kitty immediately came out with an Answer song called "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky-Tonk Angels" and that threw the blame back onto men. It was an *enormous* hit and established Kitty as a major star. It also revolutionized the way women singers could now declare their independence. It really *was* a revolutionary song. At WP there is an article called "Answer songs" that mentions this particular pairing. If you go to "Kitty Wells", you will find a *long* article about her. And, you will *also* find a separate article about her answer song at [1] that is probably longer than either of the other articles. If there can be an article about a single song (and just in the country field, WP has *many* of them), I don't see why you think an *album*, which, of course, is composed of many songs, doesn't deserve an article. Not every album, but some, the important ones. If someone is interested in that particular Kitty Wells song, why does she have to go to Kitty Wells/Discography/It Wasn't God Who Made HTA (album name)/It wasn't God Who Made HTA (song) to find out about it. And you haven't answered what I wrote earlier: if Donald Hamilton can have an article about his career in general, and can have a separate article for *each* of his novels (The Interlopers is merely the first one I have done), why can't a musical artist? Hamilton has a *bibliography*, sure. But also separate articles.... Ditto, I believe, for Henry James, a highbrow type, and at least one of his novels, The Ambassadors. I know that we writers, hehe, are of infinitely more value to the world than hack musicians, but even so.... Hayford Peirce 16:48, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- For Michelangelo, I believe that would have been his Pieta - which also of course deserves a page! Anyway, I wasn't trying to say anything about "making one known" (is that what Revolver is famous for, BTW - I'm assuming that's how the 'made famous' came into this discussion). All I said was "a significant work of art in its own right", and left that unspecified (although no doubt reasonable people might quibble over particular works), although I do think it's a reaonable abstract guideline. J. Noel Chiappa 16:10, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- I'm not saying that; I agree that there are some works of art that obviously reserve the right to have their own articles. However, I'm pretty sure that the 'David' wasn't Michaelangelo's first piece that brought him into the known world of "pop" (relative) culture; same with Beethoven's 9th. If I put out a music album, and as a direct result it makes me popular/well known, I wouldn't expect that album to have it's own article page. --Robert W King 16:01, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- {Unindenting..} So you don't think that Beethoven's 9th deserves a page? Michelangelo's David? Etc, etc, etc? Sorry, I agree with Hayford on this. If the article would just be a stub of a couple of sentences, sure, put it in with the artist's article. But if it's a significant work of art in its own right, it deserves a page, just like the 9th and the David. J. Noel Chiappa 15:56, 6 March 2008 (CST)
First, I don't know what the final answer regarding albums, or even each song, is, but the music authors and editors are going to need to discuss this. At present, I don't hate the idea of an article for each album, but I would like the authors to go through the trouble of making the complete discography first, and then elaborate at will on each individual album, if there is something important to say other than the label and release date. What I would like to strive for on this site is some kind of consistency that is agreeable to all, or most, of the relevent authors. :) REALLY paraphrasing Lenon, "imagine whirled peas". :) David E. Volk 17:00, 6 March 2008 (CST)
text searches -no limit to discography page either
I just did a search of "for the sake of the song", an album and song title, and the Townes Van Zandt discorgraphy page was the top hit. Also, the is no limit on the length of a discography page either, so important details about each album could be discussed there and on the main page. David E. Volk 14:55, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Disambig page
Since I'm an old geezer who lives in the Wild West and who has never, I think, listened to an entire Beatles song in his life, when *I* see or hear the word "revolver", I think of the gun that Hopalong Cassidy carries in his trusty holster. I'm sure that there are others who do too. So I think a disambig. page is urgently needed.... Hayford Peirce 13:10, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- Hear, hear: as a geezer who was 13 in London at the time Beatlemania began, I first thought of the album but immediately assumed it must be about the gun. Ro Thorpe 13:34, 6 March 2008 (CST)
style guide
This discussion is just one more example of why my proposal for style guides for each workgroup should be implemented. see CZ:Proposals/New David E. Volk 14:59, 6 March 2008 (CST)
- I agree -- I guess. If I understand what the issues are, that is. I've just looked at your new proposal -- it looks as if you have to do whatever is necessary to turn "Start Complete Proposal" into "Complete Proposal." Then, if I understand things correctly, we can discuss this on the new page.... Hayford Peirce 15:08, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Revisiting discopgraphies
I just noticed the discussion above about where to put this kind of content. For those interested there was a similar discussion regarding a book by Dawkins at Talk:Richard_Dawkins/Works/The_God_Delusion. Chris Day 12:26, 29 March 2008 (CDT)