Talk:North Macedonia

I have reverted the abbreviation to fYRoM because this is legally correct. The uppercase version is journalistic. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The common use is FYROM, not fYRoM (really, it's the very first time I see fYRoM). You can't ignore the traditional use of typography in acronyms. No 'legally correct' setting of lowercase and uppercase has ever existed (trust the linguist). In any case, I won't struggle for such a tidbit.--Domergue Sumien 21:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I assure you that the formal abbreviation used in all official documents is fYRoM. I much prefer this anyway, because it emphasises the temporariness (and ridiculousness) of the name: for the same reason, Greeks tend to use FYROM because this looks more permanent. I agree that the press tends to use uppercase only, but when did they ever get anything right? Martin Baldwin-Edwards 22:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

A footnote to that effect would be in order: I too had only ever seen the awful FYROM. Ro Thorpe 22:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

If one wants to be extraordinarily correct, one might note that the UN alphabetizes the name of this member nation under "T" -- for "the former [etc.]," so perhaps it should be "tfYRoM". The UN doesn't call the United States "THE United States," or the UK "THE United Kingdom, but -- interpret it as you will -- does call tfYRoM "THE". Bruce M.Tindall 03:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you're right, Bruce. I have no idea why, except that perhaps nobody is happy with this arrangement for the temporary name. So, in full it is "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" and the usual abbrevation is fYRoM. The reason for the lower case is simply that it reflects the historical legal name of "Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" whereas the word "former" has no legal basis. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 10:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Writing an acronym in all-uppercase (i.e. FYROM instead of fYRoM) is not an error from the press, it's nothing but the common, traditional and simple way of writing acronyms. Maybe someone could check this rule in the Chicago Manual of Style? I totally agree that FYROM is a ridiculous name, but it's another question.--Domergue Sumien 13:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with common style, and the opinions of linguists are not relevant. Kindly accept my expert advice that fYRoM is the correct abbreviation, although it is rarely used. I have never seen tfYRoM used, though... Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Once again: I'm not struggling for this tidbit and I'll let you write 'fYRoM' as much as you want. But what's the topic? The way one handles abbreviations is a matter of style and, in a broader sense, of grammar and linguistics. Kindly accept my expert advice in linguistics. Your expert advice concerns international institutions, it's OK, but the UN have never ruled typography. Even the UN can use a wrong typography. Typography is ruled in Citizendium by the Chicago Manual of Style.--Domergue Sumien 18:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)