User talk:Malcolm Schosha

Welcome!

Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start. You'll probably want to know how to get started as an author. Just look at CZ:Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. Be sure to stay abreast of events via the Citizendium-L (broadcast) mailing list (do join!) and the blog. Please also join the workgroup mailing list(s) that concern your particular interests. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forums is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any constable for help, too. Me, for instance! Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun! D. Matt Innis 17:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Re your problem with uploading an image

Hi, Malcolm and welcome to CZ. I just replied to your posting in our forums about the problem you had uploading an image. Below is a copy of my reply and I hope you find it useful:

There a number of things which you did incorrectly:

(1) CZ does not accept svg images. If you look at Commons page for the svg image that you referred us to (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Golden_Rectangle_Construction.svg), just below the main image at page top, there are links to four png versions: 200px, 500px, 1000px and 2000px sizes. Click on one of those, copy it to your computer and then upload it to CZ.
(2) It is not enough to simply state "Commons" as the source. You should include the actual url of the Commons page for the png version you select in (1) above.
(3) The CZ upload template (or Wizard) asks for the country of first publication (or to state that you don't know) ... which you did not provide.
(4) The CZ upload template asks you to provide a credit line and it gives you a link to instructions on how to do that ... which you also did not provide.

I know that seems like a lot of "make work" but there are good reasons for for providing the items asked for.

I see that Daniel re-uploaded the 99px png version for you. If you want me to upload one of the larger versions for you, please tell me which size you want and I will be happy to do it. Milton Beychok 22:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the extra information. I will make another try at uploading the file to CZ, but will have to wait till later in the day when I can have enough time on the computer to figure the steps out. If that does not work I may accept you offer to do it for me. Malcolm Schosha 11:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Uploaded the 1000px version for you

Malcolm, I uploaded the 1000px version for you (as a png image). The 2000px version is just too large for use here anyhow.

You can see it here. I have to leave now for an hour or so. When I get back, I will explain exactly how I uploaded it. Milton Beychok 17:17, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a question about this image, the discussion of which I have been following vaguely -- the various info below the image says clearly that is in the "public domain". BUT it also says, equally clearly, that it is "copyright by John Someone or Other". Come on, guys, it can't be both! Which one is it? If it's copyrighted, this whole thing is moot, because we can't use it. Or has John *specifically* licensed it to CZ for use? For instance, if you look at the Waldo Peirce article, you will find a picture of Waldo taken by his son, with this info (if you look for it): "Copyright © Michael Peirce. All Rights Reserved." You will also find, somewhere or other, an email from Michael to Citizendium (or me, I forget which) specifically allowing CZ to use the picture, but nothing more. Here's the picture at [1]

Further down in the article is another picture of Waldo, which is CC by me.

Two entirely different things.

So I think this issue should be straightened out first before the image is used. Hayford Peirce 17:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It says the image was created by Joel Holdsworth (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Golden_Rectangle_Construction.svg). I don't see anything else. I am certainly will to wait before using the image if you see a problem, but I think you have confused this diagram with a different image. Malcolm Schosha 17:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, it clearly says, "Copyright © Joel Holdsworth." Has he *released* all rights to Wikimedia? If so, why does he (it) still claim the copyright? You have to remember that there's a *ton* of stuff floating around on the Net that *claims* to be free but that isn't. Hayford Peirce 18:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Where does it say he has released it to Wikipedia? He says he has released it to the public domain: "I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law." That seems pretty clear to me. Malcolm Schosha 19:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

VERY STRANGE! The above comment by Malcolm was not here when I replied to Milton's comment below! I've only just now seen it -- there must have been some weird server lag somewhere along the line. Hayford Peirce 02:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Hayford, the source diagram in Commons is at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Golden_Rectangle_Construction.svg. It clearly states that Joel Holdsworth released it into the Public Domain.

The copy that I finally uploaded into CZ is at http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:1000px_Golden_Rectangle_Construction.png and I uploaded it using the Public Domain license. Where you read in the file (below the image) that the copyright holder is Joel Holdsworth, the CZ upload templates asks for who originally held the copyright for the image being uploaded ... and that was Joel Holdsworth. It does not mean that he still holds the copyright. I admit that could be clearer but that is how Caesar Chinas created the upload templates.

The credit line I created states: (PD) Diagram: Joel Holdsworth as you can see here in one of my sandboxes.

I seen no reason why my final uploaded copy at http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:1000px_Golden_Rectangle_Construction.png should not be used. If you like, I could replace Joel Holdsworth's name as the copyright holder with: Joel Holdsworth was the original copyright holder and has released it to the Public Domain. Regards, Milton Beychok 19:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Milton, for the very clear explanation. And yes, I think that's *exactly* what you should do. I wonder why Caesar wrote such a confused template? What can we do to replace this or rewrite it? Caesar has apparently vanished, but this is a situation that will definitely come up again and again.... Hayford Peirce 19:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Hayford, I changed the wording as you desired ... but it still has "Copyright ©" in front of my wording. That is part of the template and I don't know how to find or to change the template. Perhaps, you could email Caesar and ask his help. Milton Beychok 20:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Did you change the wording in just this one case? There must be a template somewhere -- there's a whole list of them at CZ:Templates. Wouldn't it be in there? Hayford Peirce 20:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

(un-indent) Hayford, I'm sorry but I just don't have a clue about that. Maybe, Daniel could help? If so, perhaps all that's needed is to revise the template so as not to include the automatic addition of "Copyright ©" in that part of the file's form. That way each uploader could add whatever appropriate wording is needed (if any) without automatically having "Copyright ©" appear in front of the wording. Once again, I just cannot help you any further with this. Milton Beychok 20:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look at it. Do we want to simply omit the "Copyright ©", or change it to something else? Drew R. Smith 00:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I have removed "Copyright ©". If anyone wants something added in its place, let me know. Drew R. Smith 01:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Drew, that's perfect! Hayford Peirce 02:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Milton, Drew apparently found this template and edited it accordingly: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Template:Image_Details Hayford Peirce 02:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

How I uploaded the 1000px png version Image:1000px Golden Rectangle Construction.png

Malcolm, here is how I did it:

• The 2000px png version was, in my opinion, too large for use in a CZ article, so I selected the 1000px png version from the file in Commons, right-clicked on it and selected "Copy".
• I then pasted that copy into my computer and found that it was named "thumb(2).png". So I renamed it as "1000px-Golden Rectangle Construction.png".
• I then uploaded it into CZ using the CZ upload template for Wikimedia Commons.
• I found that it had uploaded with a black background rather than a white (or transparent) background. I have no explanation of why that occurred. I noted that the 99px version uploaded for you by Daniel Miethchen also had a black background (as rendered on my IE 6 browser).
• At that point I placed a "speedydelete" on my upload with the black background.
• I then used Microsft's Paint program to change the black background of the copy on my computer to a white (or transparent) background.
• I renamed my computer copy (with the white background) as "1000px Golden Rectangle Construction.png" and uploaded it as the current copy into CZ. Milton Beychok 19:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Malcolm, about a year or so ago, I didn't know how to do any of this myself. But it finally became clear .. so don't despair. Milton Beychok 20:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't feel desperate, although I often do feel amazed when something I thought fairly simple turns into a project so much more complex than I anticipated. Thanks for the help. Malcolm Schosha 20:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Gallery

Malcolm, since you want to collect a gallery (an interesting one), I want to point you to CZ:Gallery. Galleries are meant to be subpages to some main page. Peter Schmitt 01:16, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

It was, even on Wikimedia Commons, intended to be as much an article as a gallery. For instance [2], where I had included a short article I had previously written for Wikipedia.

Pazienza. Malcolm Schosha 01:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Of course, but for one single article there seem to be too many pictures. To me, it looks like an article with an accompanying gallery. But this may evolve. It was just a remark. Peter Schmitt 12:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Of course, it is possible that what I want to do will not fit in CZ. I will need to think about that.Malcolm Schosha 13:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

That was not what I intended to say. I only wanted to point out the possibilities to structure the article. Peter Schmitt 13:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Malcolm, I see you had a similar discussion here already, and I would echo Peter in saying that your artistic expertise is very welcome at CZ. We are also aware that artists tend to find existing structures unsuitable for their activities, and we have offered the guidance we could. Since neither of us is an Editor in Visual Arts, you are free to ignore our suggestions. --Daniel Mietchen 16:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)